Daniel 10-12 Q&A
Here are some brief answers to our questions from our Sunday evening service. If you would like to discuss more, please call me or email at bruces@stphils.org.au.
I am sorry we weren't able to get through more questions whilst Greg was with us.
1. How do we know that the idea of ‘scattering’ and ‘returning’ is about Jews and not all believers (Jew and Gentile) around the world?
As the audience of the writing is Jews (from Judah), this is the usually accepted understanding of the subject of those being scattered and returning. See 2 Chronicles 18:16 for example). "Gathering" is more a term used when including Gentiles, especially in relation to the eschaton (final days):
Matthew 24:31
And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
2. Is it widely accepted that the state of Israel’s formation is essential to identifying Jesus’ return? Would this be taking these out of context as symbols?
I would not say that it is accepted much at all. These chapters of Daniel are written at the same time that Judah (Southern Israel) is being re-established (see the books of Ezra and Nehemiah for example). So the people of God in Judah are already being rebuilt and re-established before Jesus' first coming. There is little, in my opinion, to point to the re-establishing (again) of Israel as a state before Jesus returns.
3. Do you think “above the waters of the river” is a reference to being above chaos, as many refer to the sea as chaotic in ancient times? Or something else?
Perhaps. Possibly. But I think there is a stronger link here with the imagery of rivers (as opposed to chaotic oceans) which we see in Genesis (in the Garden of Eden) and Revelation. Rivers often give the idea of life and peace, whereas the oceans, as you correctly say, are a symbol of chaos.
4. In 12:8-9, if Daniel does not understand God’s message, for what reason does God shows him the vision? What can we learn about this experience?
Deuteronomy 29:29 is a helpful verse, as mentioned on Sunday. God often gives us information that we cannot fully understand. First, this reminds us that there are mysteries yet to be revealed, and second, one day these mysteries will be made clear! These visions call on Daniel to have patience and trust in the Lord.
5. What is the difference between ‘trust with doubt’ from ‘blind obedience'?
Doubt is very human. Through doubt, we often push to gain deeper wisdom and knowledge and understanding. This is a good thing. Blind obedience does not question at all. Daniel shows us that we can ask questions, that we can have human doubts, and that God cares about this and wants to help us understand - not just blindly follow.
6. What are some of the other attributes of divinity that were limited when Jesus was incarnate?
Jesus was limited in his foreknowledge (such as not knowing the time of his return), but he also chose to lay down other attributes of his divinity. This is perhaps clearest in his temptation in the wilderness (Matthew 4). Jesus chooses not to turn stones into bread or jump off the temple. He became hungry and thirsty as a human. Philippians 2 also tells us that he laid down his place of honour in the heavens for a purpose - to become human and lay down his life for humans:
Philippians 2:6-8
6Who, being in very nature God,did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;7rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.8And being found in appearance as a man,he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!
7. How do we know that 10:6 is Christ-like. Isn’t the “multitude” usually a reference to demons?
Revelation 19:1 and 6 also mention the voice of a multitude - of angels. There are not many references in the Bible to the voice like a multitude, but these seem to be the key ones and relate to God's "side" rather than demons. Daniel 10-12 really does have strong links to Revelation and we have, unlike Daniel, the privilege of seeing many of these links today because we can read them both! I look forward to studying Revelation next term together.
Q and A is from 1:49:00